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England and Wales Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) Decisions |
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You are here: BAILII >> Databases >> England and Wales Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) Decisions >> Naz, R. v [2017] EWCA Crim 482 (11 April 2017) URL: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2017/482.html Cite as: [2018] 4 WLR 28, [2017] WLR(D) 821, [2018] Crim LR 392, [2017] EWCA Crim 482 |
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CRIMINAL DIVISION
Strand London, WC2A 2LL |
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B e f o r e :
MR JUSTICE GREEN
MR JUSTICE PICKEN
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R E G I N A | ||
v | ||
SAMAH NAZ |
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WordWave International Limited
Trading as DTI
8th Floor, 165 Fleet Street, London EC4A 2DY
Tel No: 020 7404 1400 Fax No: 020 7404 1424
(Official Shorthand Writers to the Court)
Ms R Kodikara appeared on behalf of the Crown
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Crown Copyright ©
"Well, madam, you are too pretty to say these words. Maybe you deserved a punch because you have a very rude mouth."
"You would have this jury believe you intervened like a knight in shining armour."
The judge interrupted, saying:
"I don't think this witness has claimed he was a knight in shining armour, so please do not diminish what happened and his conduct on the day...
He went there, as any right thinking person is concerned, in order to prevent a situation from becoming very worrying indeed. It's not a question of knight in shining armour."
"MR QURESHI: And now I am putting to him that he didn't say it as a result of my lay client making any derogatory remarks, he did it himself by his own initiative.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Why?
MR QURESHI: Because --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Why would he say that? MR QURESHI: Sorry, your Honour?
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: He works at Tesco's, pushing trolleys around, why would he use such language to a woman who he doesn't know.
MR QURESHI: Your Honour, may I raise a matter of law, please.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: No, just answer that question and then we'll get on with the cross-examination.
MR QURESHI: The reason he used that language is because he was protecting his friend.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: His friend, which he has denied.
A. He is not my friend.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: He has denied it repeatedly.
MR QURESHI: Your Honour, yes, and your Honour has asked me what the defence case is and whatever your Honour's view is about the position, the jury will obviously determine the matter.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Let's move on. Let's move on.
It was put to you that this man is a friend, you were trying to protect him in some way.
A. He is not my friend.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: He is not your friend, you don't know him.
A. I don't know him, Sir.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Right, let's move on then."
"MR QURESHI: May I just please use this opportunity just to crystallise the defence case. I want to do that, your Honour, because I don't want your Honour to feel that I am chasing irrelevant points.
The defence case is this, your Honour, the suggestion that she was using any racial element is a complete pack of lies and it's a lie, it's a conspiracy, that has been supported by this witness and all the other prosecution witnesses, non-police witnesses, who are coming to court to give evidence.
And so the reason why I am making these allegations and asking these questions is all designed to support the defence case that there is a hidden agenda here.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: What is that?
MR QURESHI: The hidden agenda is, first of all, Mr Wafta helping his friend and avoiding the accusation that he was helping his friend get away from an assault; and secondly, to protect his job.
And the other witnesses supporting Mr Wafta --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: So are you going to allege there was collusion between these witnesses, that in the time that it took for police to arrive, they put their heads together and colluded.
MR QURESHI: Well, I hope to show this jury, it didn't all unravel when the police arrived, it unravelled over a period of time.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: I hear what you are saying, Mr Qureshi, but quite frankly it's far-fetched.
MR QURESHI: It may well be, but those are my --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: The proper defence here is what I suggested earlier and perhaps people ought to be thinking about that. The proper defence here is that, I was so shocked and I was so upset at what had happened to me that I may have used foul language, I probably did use foul language against this poor, hapless man, but the one thing I didn't say was that he was a "fucking foreigner".
That is what the defence should be. All the rest of it is nonsense.
MR QURESHI: But the witnesses are maintaining she did use that language.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Yes, so you put it to him and then in your speech for the jury, you say, can you be sure that she used foreigner.
MR QURESHI: Your Honour, I understand that.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Instead we are going to spend time looking at collusions, conspiracies...
MR QURESHI: Well that is unfortunately the defence case, your Honour.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Well, it's bunkum. I'm not going to decide this case obviously, the jury do. Anyway let's move on. Let's move on and do the best we can to keep going."
"JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Can we just pause here. I just need to understand, why were you so angry at him?
A. Because I felt like at the time he knew the person, so I just felt he was assisting him back into the car; that was what was going through my head.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Yes, but you must have appreciated that he had taken somebody off you.
A. No, that's how he has made it out, but he --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Just pause here, Ms Naz, you have just told us that a complete stranger.
A. He didn't --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Ms Naz, I'm just trying to recap what you've told us, just to remind you.
You just told us that a complete stranger, a male, has grabbed you by the neck and pushed you up against a car and this Mr Wafta has come and pulled him off you. That's what you told us.
Is that right? Is that what happened?
A. But after he pulled him off me, he then --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Never mind what happened afterwards, but he pulled him off you, didn't he, on your account.
A. No, but he wasn't helping me, that's why I felt at the scene, he was not--
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Pause there, just pause and think about this.
MR QURESHI: Your Honour, that's the way she --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Just pause and think about it, because you may not be explaining yourself.
A man has his hand around your throat, around your neck --
A. That's correct.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: -- holding you up there.
A. Then I walk back and he tells me I deserved it, so how would I --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: You are conflating issues. Take it in steps, please.
A. Right, okay. But I felt --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Listen to what I'm saying, take it in steps.
The man has you around your neck.
A. That's correct.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: That is your evidence.
Yes.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Another man, who you don't know, comes up and grabs this man and pulls him off you.
A. Puts him back into the car --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Leaving that aside, he pulled him off you, so that the man releases his grip on your throat; is that right? Is that what happened?
A. That's what happened. JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Right.
A. He then told him --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Pausing there --
A. -- the police are on their way --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Pausing there, Ms Naz, why were you angry at this man who had saved you from being throttled?
A. Because he then repeats to the person, "The police are on their way, go, go, go."
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Right, so you were angry at him, because he had helped this man leave.
A. I felt he knew the person, yes, that attacked me.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: The fact that he saved you from further injury obviously didn't feature in your view at that point.
A. It wasn't like that at the scene, it wasn't as if he was helping me, it was more the attack had happened, he just came, split him away from me, but then he was telling him to go from the scene, so he was saving his friend in my mind."
"JUDGE DEL FABBRO: In your upset, Ms Naz, before you entered the store, did you remonstrate with him and say to him, "You fucking foreigner."
A. No. My own mother is an immigrant, I would never --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Never mind your mother, never mind --
A. -- I would never use those words.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Leave your mother out of it. MR QURESHI: Your Honour, please can she --
A. I would never use those words.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Will you please listen when I am talking.
A. I am listening, but --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Please stop.
A. -- I wouldn't say that.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Right. The question was very simple, did you use that language, and you said no. And you were going to say something about your mother, which I would like to record, please.
"I did not say to Mr Wafta, 'you fucking foreigner'. My mother is an immigrant and I would not use that language towards anyone"."
"MR QURESHI: Did you at any time use any racial abusive language to Mr Wafta?
A. Never.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Did you use abusive language? Take it in stages, because the jury have to consider this in stages.
Do you accept that you used abusive language towards him?
A. There was the F word used at one point.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: And presumably you would categorise that as abusive?
A. Sort of, yes, if you are trying, yes, if you are swearing at some point; yes, that's abusive.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: That's abusive language. I mean, there may be a reason behind it.
A. But it wasn't towards him in that way. I was explaining things. I was attacked. I might have said I was fucking attacked in that way --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: "I did use abusive language."
But didn't you say something to him personal? What kind of fucking man are you?
A. Yes, I added that --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: So that is towards him.
A. Yes.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: And you would accept that that is abusive towards somebody.
A. Well, at the time of -- if a woman's hurt in that way, it's just the way I expressed myself, it's not --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Yes, but it is abusive language; you accept that?
A. Yes, swearing is abusive; isn't it.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Right. So you did use abusive language.
Now when you used that abusive language against him, did you intend to hurt him, insult him --
A. Not in any kind of way; no.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: -- harass him, alarm him?
A. No.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: You were just expressing yourself?
A. I was expressing myself.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: "I did not intend to alarm him or harass him."
And then the final question is, in that abusive language that you accept you used, did you refer to him, and that is all that has been alleged here, that he is a… foreigner?
A. No. I would never use those words.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: "I did not refer to him as a foreigner at all." Does that cover all the steps, Mr Qureshi?"
"A. Can I just say our policy is fairer immigration if that's what you're referring to or how you're putting --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Yes but the general --
A. -- the party into the frame of being against anyone, it's wrong. It's not right.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Yes, yes.
A. Because there's many, many people from many different backgrounds that support UKIP. It's nothing to do with this.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: I know. Absolutely right and perfectly entitled to do so. People are perfectly entitled to support UKIP but going back to the policies, the policy is focused primarily, not exclusively but primarily on immigration and the basis of focusing on that immigration, the party that is, is because it is considered by the party that the current immigration policies allow too many immigrants into the UK. That is the basis.
A. I wouldn't -- I've never -- I wouldn't put it in that context. I don't -- I just -- I don't agree with that. Sorry, as a daughter of immigrants I wouldn't represent them if that's what they stood for.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: I mean, that's the question that Ms Kodikara is asking you. In fact it is an open question.
A. It's wrong. I mean, you know, previously in the last trial she had said UKIP has controversial views against immigrants. It's wrong, you know. These are --
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: All right, let's see where we are then for that --
A. It's very wrong what she is saying. It's not true at all. Nothing against anyone. Everyone is entitled or anyone is entitled to join.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: But the reason why UKIP are so concerned, UKIP as a party -- of course individuals within are different --
A. No. I think they highlight many, sorry, other, you know, policies.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Yes but the reason why they are so concerned about immigration is because they believe that immigration is out of control. That is a stated --
A. Not out of control in that way where they are stopping people from coming here. They want people here but they want the skilled.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Yes, it's out of control. It's not being controlled.
A. Fairer.
JUDGE DEL FABBRO: Yes.
A. A points based system. Nothing to do with stopping anyone from entering here."
(A short adjournment)